No line, No sand... No problem?   

My original post was in error when I said there was a line drawn in the Sand. That line I am now told has not  been drawn. My original understanding was that Joe Jordan was told that he would not be granted a role in providing another venue of speakers for next years UFO Convention sponsored by the city of Roswell.

This statement is true as the result  determined by a special meeting shortly after the ending of this years show. I was not at that meeting so I do not know any of the details. I do know , that in spite of this determination, for what ever reasons unknown to me, Joe is apparently welcomed back as a speaker for next years convention. So doors are not completely closed and a line has not been drawn in any sand against Christianity, Christian researchers or the Biblical view of this phenomena by the city of Roswell.

People connected with the Roswell city government apparently came across my posting and felt concerned that I had put them in a bad light. I based my posting on incomplete information as I was not really in the loop this year and went on what I was told which was not the whole story. For this,  I apologize to all concerned. The city of Roswell wanted it to be known that they are impartial to any particular secular or religious view concerning UFOs and Aliens and are not targeting exclusion of Christians or the Biblical view.

 Joe Jordan and his CE4 Research ministry had the rare opportunity of presenting the official City of Roswell's 61st anniversary UFO Conference. In his line up of speakers, there were secular researchers and authors from all over the globe covering just about every viewpoint and perspective representing the UFO community on a global platform. This was probably the best objective collection Roswell has experienced in the eleven straight years of having conferences.

Last year, Guy Malone of Alien Resistance had the opportunity of providing the only rival to Joe's venue. Guy included four Christian speakers to round off a full spectrum of  various perspectives. In both conferences, neither the Christian speakers or the Biblical view was predominate over the others, but in fact were equal in Guy's conference and even played down in Joe's, reserving the Christian speakers to last position in presentations. This reflected on both their counts, a fair graceful objectivity toward others with opposing views. Guy was not welcomed back, but I was also told that this had nothing to do with Christian speakers or the Biblical views presented. Joe was able to fill the spot as coordinator this year and continued to have an added Biblical perspective. He was also not invited back to coordinate next years convention, but was welcomed back as a speaker. I was not told any further details and so I will not speculate or comment beyond this point.

There was a lot of concern by the secular speakers at the end of the convention about this different "Christian view" as they coined it with a few who were quite upset. So what did Joe Jordan and Dave Ruffino do that was so different from other UFO conventions? They put the so called "Aliens" on a mock trial with the Bible as the guideline!

Joe and fellow member of Alien Abduction Crises Centers of America's, Dave Ruffino did an excellent Job of providing a Biblical perspective. They presented their information by putting the "Aliens" on trial. In a mock trial, they presented witnesses, testimonies and evidence to define just what Aliens are and their objectives. This was as Joe said, "the missing unwanted piece of the puzzle". Joe had ten different victims (myself included) of Alien abduction flown in to be a living witness to the termination of the abduction experience  and total victory in the name of Jesus. They presented the information in the most easy direct and simple manner that anyone could understand. They were not leaving any room to be misunderstood making a firm yet graceful stand on sound Biblical principles. Gods anointing was clearly on both of them. In spite of these precautions, the devil was there to stir things up.

Dave Flynn ended the evening with a two part discussion on the Roswell incident leading up to 2012. If you have ever heard Dave or read his book, he clearly dispels any stereotype of Christians being simple minded and led by blind faith. Dave Flynn is anything but simple and his faith well grounded in God's Word. He has a Gnostic approach and truly unique style. In his own words, " This is one of the most important talks I have ever given".

At the end of the presentations, there was a short question and answer "round table discussion" (minus the table) which included all of the speakers. There was an intense amount of emotion and even anger coming from many of the secular speakers toward the "Christian view" as they termed it. Paola Harris stated in contempt, that never in her life has she ever been to such an event and in her country, (Italy) this sort of thing would never happen! Well, we here in the U.S. still have some form of freedom of speech  and not everyone here dislikes God yet, so what are you saying about yourself and your country Paola?

Richard Dolan expressed his "expert" view that there was nothing in the Bible that pertained to Aliens or the UFO phenomenon. His expertise is history not the Bible so how does that comment mean anything other than a personal uninformed opinion?

Dennis Balthaser added in a condescending manner directed toward the "Christian speakers" Joe Jordan, Dave Ruffino and Dave Flynn that he was a Christian and a UFO investigator. The context of his comment was that as a Christian and elder of The First Baptist church of Roswell, and a Ufologist, he had no problem with the secular world being of both camps so why the problem.

While I never spoke to Dennis, I have read his material and heard him speak. I can tell you that in my circle of evangelical Christianity, we have a label for his version of Faith. It is called apostate. Anyone who could believe his worldview would have to blatantly reject the Bible as the Word of God and willfully ignore much of its content. No wonder he has no problem with the world he is their friend! If his church has no problem with his beliefs, it is only because they are like the rest of Roswell, not knowing or understanding the subject and willfully ignoring it.


Farah Yukdozu a young Islamic woman and UFO researcher from Turkey, was the only one of two, open to consider and accept some aspects of the Christian view. Karen Dolan added a comment that she is cautiously uncertain about including a religious belief system with such a narrow focus, however, if a measure of success has been accomplished with abduction cases, some merit needs to be accepted for the sake of some. 

Peter Robbins was the moderator and did an excellent job in spite of a partiality to the secular position. He did the best anyone could to remain professional, fair and respective to everyone. As Peter was reviewing the presentations that were given, he included Joe and Dave's presentation of putting the others on trial. In context this was not anything that was meant to stand out, it was merely part of the recapping of events. When Joe and Dave had a chance to speak, they announced the fact that it was the Aliens not the Researchers that were put on trial. Perhaps it was this misunderstanding that caused much of the emotional reaction from the others.  Since most of what the secular researchers perceive, comes from the Aliens themselves, it would not be too hard for them to not take it personal, but that was not the intension of Joe and Dave.

The added offense and objection most of the secular people had was that they were approaching the subject from gathering physical evidence for a physical event. Their position  did not include a spiritual theology. Religion with such a narrow view should not be included in their serious study of the topic of UFOs and Aliens as they stated in the discussion.

This was easily refutable and the true Biblical explanation could slice right through these hypocritical statements. I must confess I would have wanted to pursue the matter further. Joe using godly wisdom however, realized that he had already accomplished all he needed to and gracefully bowed out of going any further and in that, did not make anyone look bad. Dave F. Dave R. and Joe remained perfect witnesses for the Lord.

What the secular UFO community fails to realize is that although fallen angels are spirit beings they are physical and do have a physical nature to their makeup. They say they are only interested in physical evidence but yet, they reject the mountain of evidence pointing to man made UFOs discovered by the Nazis. This connection is rejected because to come to grips with this as a fact, they also have to wrestle with how the Nazis obtained their knowledge and technology. It was through the Occult. To have this kind of connection, brings everything back to one of a spiritual problem. This key element is the one they all want to reject, either by  ignoring or explaining it away. I have poured over rolls of microfilm from the US Archives on Nazi war crimes, scientific experiments and technological developments. I know what I am talking about. However in presenting this, many times it is thrown back in my face as my religious beliefs. This is the same type of research they claim to have an open mind about but add the Bible (only as a historical text) into the mix and it all becomes "religious".

The message that all of the Alien types proclaim, is one that is spiritual! You cannot separate this dimension from the whole of the experience. Weather they realize it or not, the secular researchers are all including a religious aspect in their perception because of what they accept and believe coming from the "aliens" themselves. They are proclaiming a religious view disbelieving God and replacing Him with the Aliens as creator, guides or cosmic big brothers!

There is no argument that these entities are not real or that  UFO's exist. Most of the Christian researchers that I would consider my colleagues all agree that both are very real. We have come to these conclusion not by some vague religious belief of some kind of ignorant blind faith. It has come from the same kind of scrutiny, and research process any secular researcher would use. To have our hard work thrown back into our faces as just our religious beliefs is very disappointing and condescending. Many of us have come to our conclusions because of the fine research and work by the secular researchers. We actually would not be where we are today in this arena, if it were not for them! How then are we belittling their work? We are not in any means doing this. Since this article that i am now updating, that is what we have been accused of by some!

Where we differ, is only in the one basic fact, What are their intensions? Are they good or bad. Setting any religious beliefs in the Bible aside and looking at the prophetic and historical aspects we have a detailed description of all of the events and history surrounding UFOs and Aliens. Call them what you will, Aliens or Fallen Angels, it is a matter of semantics for most of us, they are real but are they good or bad? As a Christian using the Bible only in the capacity of believing there is a historical narrative, past present and future from our point of view, the warnings are clear. They are not good, they are bad. As Christians, we use the Bible to give us this perspective of discernment. The secular UFO community only has what is said and done by the so called Aliens themselves. In this, if you are going to go by hard core evidence, it takes more blind faith to believe any of them are up to any good. There are no hard facts that you could call "scientific" to give you any conclusions, you are accepting the belief that some are good by FAITH!

The Biblical view is not any new dimension added, it only explains and defines what already exists from the "Aliens" own words and actions. Putting these " Aliens" on a mock trial was a rather dramatic attention getting vehicle to express the seriousness of why we believe what we believe. It offered a different piece of the puzzle with an outside source other than things stated by the "Aliens" themselves . It stirred up minds and created controversy in a very respectful manner, which was a good introduction. Well done Joe, Dave R and Dave F

Be a firsthand witness and see for yourself! You can have a chance to watch the entire presentation by clicking on the 2008 banner at the top. It will take you where you can purchase the entire convention on DVD.

(These views above are my own and do not reflect any organizations or other colleagues)